Comments on: TiVo Awarded Patent For Password That Is So Hard To Guess It Will Outlive Your Hard Drive http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/ Tue, 16 Mar 2010 19:47:51 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Francisco http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/comment-page-1/#comment-55174 Francisco Sat, 26 May 2007 07:18:01 +0000 http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/#comment-55174 Just connect your TiVO DVR to your computer's Video capture card and play back the content while you record on your computer. Then you will be able to "take the content on-the-go with you" Just connect your TiVO DVR to your computer’s Video capture card and play back the content while you record on your computer. Then you will be able to “take the content on-the-go with you”

]]> By: Francisco http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/comment-page-1/#comment-55171 Francisco Sat, 26 May 2007 07:03:38 +0000 http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/#comment-55171 Whats the point of buying a TiVO DVR Unit if the user wont be able to burn DVD's or VHS Copies of content the USER decided to record on the hard drive and ONLY let the user VIEW the content on their TV's. If I buy a DVR is because I would like to record contents on the hard drives and only re-record content from the DVR's hard drive to a DVD so I can take the content with me and play them on my portable DVD or my laptop when take the train for a LOOOONG trip. If I cant have that functionality from a TiVO based DVR system (which would force me to purchase the DVD for a movie I already have recorded on the TiVO's DVR's Hard drive), I just will buy a video capture card and record content to my PC for which I am not unreasonably unrestricted. Whats the point of buying a TiVO DVR Unit if the user wont be able to burn DVD’s or VHS Copies of content the USER decided to record on the hard drive and ONLY let the user VIEW the content on their TV’s. If I buy a DVR is because I would like to record contents on the hard drives and only re-record content from the DVR’s hard drive to a DVD so I can take the content with me and play them on my portable DVD or my laptop when take the train for a LOOOONG trip. If I cant have that functionality from a TiVO based DVR system (which would force me to purchase the DVD for a movie I already have recorded on the TiVO’s DVR’s Hard drive), I just will buy a video capture card and record content to my PC for which I am not unreasonably unrestricted.

]]> By: ano http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/comment-page-1/#comment-53375 ano Wed, 16 May 2007 14:11:44 +0000 http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/#comment-53375 gay gay

]]> By: Security Apprentice http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/comment-page-1/#comment-53169 Security Apprentice Tue, 15 May 2007 17:50:14 +0000 http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/#comment-53169 Alright, I am pretty new into the whole security realm; however, when setting up a VPN using device authentication, is it not pretty much the same thing as this, except that this seems to be using CHAP? So what I am getting at is that the content on the medium may still be encrypted (just because it is an authentication patent does not mean it is not using a form of VPN). Since it is the harddrive that is sending out the challenge, why could you not put in another harddrive? The host machine will be the same machine using the same cryptographic chip, except there will be a new harddrive added, which (thinking logically here) would not intefere with the cryptographic chip. Also, if you really wanted to, could you not take the harddrive and the chip out of the original host and install them into another compatable host, thus bypassing the use of TiVo's host and using your own, which would allow you to transfer files between drives? -Security Apprentice Alright, I am pretty new into the whole security realm; however, when setting up a VPN using device authentication, is it not pretty much the same thing as this, except that this seems to be using CHAP? So what I am getting at is that the content on the medium may still be encrypted (just because it is an authentication patent does not mean it is not using a form of VPN).

Since it is the harddrive that is sending out the challenge, why could you not put in another harddrive? The host machine will be the same machine using the same cryptographic chip, except there will be a new harddrive added, which (thinking logically here) would not intefere with the cryptographic chip. Also, if you really wanted to, could you not take the harddrive and the chip out of the original host and install them into another compatable host, thus bypassing the use of TiVo’s host and using your own, which would allow you to transfer files between drives?

-Security Apprentice

]]> By: Motorcycle Guy http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/comment-page-1/#comment-53167 Motorcycle Guy Tue, 15 May 2007 17:36:41 +0000 http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/#comment-53167 That's crazy and kind of scary next stop drm that when you break it kills your pc. That’s crazy and kind of scary next stop drm that when you break it kills your pc.

]]> By: Jeff Knodel http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/comment-page-1/#comment-53134 Jeff Knodel Tue, 15 May 2007 15:05:48 +0000 http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/#comment-53134 Eventually, you will be charged per minute of programming that you watch, each moment that you watch it. You'll need a credit card to activate your television, or a little coin box so that you can feed change into the TV while you watch. Seriously. The tighter that they squeeze, the more content will slip through their fingers. Don't get me wrong, I am a grown adult, and I am all for supporting (ie paying for) the programming that I like, but the hoops that they are making for me to actually use it is getting so annoying that I would almost consider downloading the illegal, DRM-free version to avoid the pain that they are causing. Eventually, you will be charged per minute of programming that you watch, each moment that you watch it. You’ll need a credit card to activate your television, or a little coin box so that you can feed change into the TV while you watch.

Seriously. The tighter that they squeeze, the more content will slip through their fingers.

Don’t get me wrong, I am a grown adult, and I am all for supporting (ie paying for) the programming that I like, but the hoops that they are making for me to actually use it is getting so annoying that I would almost consider downloading the illegal, DRM-free version to avoid the pain that they are causing.

]]> By: B&Massa http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/comment-page-1/#comment-52989 B&Massa Tue, 15 May 2007 00:48:59 +0000 http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/#comment-52989 [[Actually, it’s “their content”, not “our content” (beginning of “the glass half empty” section). You pay for a license to see that content, you can’t buy the content.]] Er, yeh, but you OWN the LICENCE within the TERMS, and if you lose the content before gaining full access to the licence (it happens, as inevitable as death, taxes and password cracking) then you are denied your consumer rights. Therefore this does not protect the consumer. [[Actually, it’s “their content”, not “our content” (beginning of “the glass half empty” section). You pay for a license to see that content, you can’t buy the content.]]

Er, yeh, but you OWN the LICENCE within the TERMS, and if you lose the content before gaining full access to the licence (it happens, as inevitable as death, taxes and password cracking) then you are denied your consumer rights. Therefore this does not protect the consumer.

]]> By: john arenas http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/comment-page-1/#comment-52957 john arenas Mon, 14 May 2007 21:38:00 +0000 http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/#comment-52957 ill add you to i play wow didnt think i wold find people who play on this form ill add you to i play wow didnt think i wold find people who play on this form

]]> By: mark mau http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/comment-page-1/#comment-52956 mark mau Mon, 14 May 2007 21:36:56 +0000 http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/#comment-52956 yo i play runescape to ill add you yo i play runescape to ill add you

]]> By: ricky walker http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/comment-page-1/#comment-52955 ricky walker Mon, 14 May 2007 21:34:50 +0000 http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/#comment-52955 what is up with all this the company wasn't thinking or just didn't care what they did they just created something real easy for people to try and bypass over the years you think they would learn from all the stuff that has happen to all the other company's people have gotten through they'll learn from there mistake and hopefully come back with something much better P.S RUNESCAPE RULES iam only 14 add me on runescape if you play gr33n robin and i know all of you will start saying this is a place to comment about the subject but guess what i did so now u mostly have nothing else to say except what is a 14 year old doing on this site and doesn't even know what he is talking about but guess what i do company's make stuff real stupid some times but sooner or later they will learn hopefully and make products that are more protective and have a real good security system what is up with all this the company wasn’t thinking or just didn’t care what they did they just created something real easy for people to try and bypass over the years you think they would learn from all the stuff that has happen to all the other company’s people have gotten through they’ll learn from there mistake and hopefully come back with something much better P.S RUNESCAPE RULES iam only 14 add me on runescape if you play gr33n robin and i know all of you will start saying this is a place to comment about the subject but guess what i did so now u mostly have nothing else to say except what is a 14 year old doing on this site and doesn’t even know what he is talking about but guess what i do company’s make stuff real stupid some times but sooner or later they will learn hopefully and make products that are more protective and have a real good security system

]]> By: phil http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/comment-page-1/#comment-52902 phil Mon, 14 May 2007 16:24:43 +0000 http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/#comment-52902 Tivo has been off my "must have" list for a while now. Looks like it will stay that way. Big content is out of control. The more they push the less I watch/buy. I don't need people like that in my life. There is lots of entertainment available. Tivo has been off my “must have” list for a while now. Looks like it will stay that way. Big content is out of control. The more they push the less I watch/buy. I don’t need people like that in my life. There is lots of entertainment available.

]]> By: Peter Yellman http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/comment-page-1/#comment-52896 Peter Yellman Mon, 14 May 2007 16:00:25 +0000 http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/#comment-52896 Hey WTF, how about this one? You buy a car, and you must sign a document that says "I promise not to mod out this vehicle to make it look better than the other, similar models made by this manufacturer". Oh, or this! The next screwdriver you buy says "You may not, even in an emergency, turn this screwdriver around and use the butt handle as a hammer". And then there you are, stuck in the desert with your screwdriver and you need to hammer the top off a water bottle and some clown pops up out of nowhere and says "Tsk, tsk, if you wanted to use that as a hammer, you should have built your own or bought a competing product". Seriously, get a clue. Peter Yellman Hey WTF, how about this one? You buy a car, and you must sign a document that says “I promise not to mod out this vehicle to make it look better than the other, similar models made by this manufacturer”.

Oh, or this! The next screwdriver you buy says “You may not, even in an emergency, turn this screwdriver around and use the butt handle as a hammer”. And then there you are, stuck in the desert with your screwdriver and you need to hammer the top off a water bottle and some clown pops up out of nowhere and says “Tsk, tsk, if you wanted to use that as a hammer, you should have built your own or bought a competing product”.

Seriously, get a clue.

Peter Yellman

]]> By: Hermann Strijewski http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/comment-page-1/#comment-52807 Hermann Strijewski Mon, 14 May 2007 06:31:22 +0000 http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/#comment-52807 Wow, clearly pretty strong content protection in that patent. How about going one step further and actually encrypting what shows up on the screen: A patent for a high-security mechanism that scrambles the picture that appears on the screen to such an extent that that to the naked eye it appears like random white noise. Only if you wear special goggles with built-in monitors, similar to military nightvision goggles can you enter a personal license viewing code which enables you see the picture on the TV screen. This protects the movie being watched by any bystanders in the room who has not been individually licensed for that movie with his Personal Goggle Viewing Device (PGVD). Furthermore the patent also covers a tripod that stands on the ground by gravity and upholds the PGVD so that the human face will NOT have to bear the heavy weight oft he Goggle viewing device. The personalized license viewing code can be revoked during the movie if the Personal Goggle Viewing device detects that the viewer is falling asleep. Let's get THAT patent filed for right away... Wow, clearly pretty strong content protection in that patent. How about going one step further and actually encrypting what shows up on the screen: A patent for a high-security mechanism that scrambles the picture that appears on the screen to such an extent that that to the naked eye it appears like random white noise. Only if you wear special goggles with built-in monitors, similar to military nightvision goggles can you enter a personal license viewing code which enables you see the picture on the TV screen. This protects the movie being watched by any bystanders in the room who has not been individually licensed for that movie with his Personal Goggle Viewing Device (PGVD). Furthermore the patent also covers a tripod that stands on the ground by gravity and upholds the PGVD so that the human face will NOT have to bear the heavy weight oft he Goggle viewing device. The personalized license viewing code can be revoked during the movie if the Personal Goggle Viewing device detects that the viewer is falling asleep. Let’s get THAT patent filed for right away…

]]> By: anon-e-mouse http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/comment-page-1/#comment-52735 anon-e-mouse Sun, 13 May 2007 23:39:24 +0000 http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/#comment-52735 Just like vista. MS said it was soo secure and unhackable so it pissed off so many hackers that by release day there were already hundreds of exploits and hacks out. Just like vista. MS said it was soo secure and unhackable so it pissed off so many hackers that by release day there were already hundreds of exploits and hacks out.

]]> By: Julián Rodriguez Orihuela http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/comment-page-1/#comment-52730 Julián Rodriguez Orihuela Sun, 13 May 2007 23:17:41 +0000 http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/#comment-52730 Actually, it's "their content", not "our content" (beginning of "the glass half empty" section). You pay for a license to see that content, you can't buy the content. Actually, it’s “their content”, not “our content” (beginning of “the glass half empty” section).

You pay for a license to see that content, you can’t buy the content.

]]> By: gregf http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/comment-page-1/#comment-52726 gregf Sun, 13 May 2007 22:57:13 +0000 http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/#comment-52726 Are companies still this stupid? Unbreakable? I give it a week. There is going to be 10 times the people wanting to break this now just because of the name. Companies really need to realize there is not a lot they can do to lock there products down. It's just a delay that is about it. Are companies still this stupid? Unbreakable? I give it a week. There is going to be 10 times the people wanting to break this now just because of the name. Companies really need to realize there is not a lot they can do to lock there products down. It’s just a delay that is about it.

]]> By: LMAO http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/comment-page-1/#comment-52721 LMAO Sun, 13 May 2007 22:40:32 +0000 http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/#comment-52721 You guys seriously need to get a life, instead of flaming each other in replies to a article. Also, I must say that what Superdave Osborne said - "if the encryption is only for the authentication process, then the actual data on the drive (and passed between drive and host) is unencrypted. this leaves open a gaping hole for someone to construct a piece of hardware to plug in between drive and host to catch the data during transfer. no decryption required." A simple hardware "packet sniffer" would do the job perfectly. You guys seriously need to get a life, instead of flaming each other in replies to a article. Also, I must say that what Superdave Osborne said – “if the encryption is only for the authentication process, then the actual data on the drive (and passed between drive and host) is unencrypted. this leaves open a gaping hole for someone to construct a piece of hardware to plug in between drive and host to catch the data during transfer. no decryption required.” A simple hardware “packet sniffer” would do the job perfectly.

]]> By: gxti http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/comment-page-1/#comment-52712 gxti Sun, 13 May 2007 21:52:01 +0000 http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/#comment-52712 Distributed computing won't save you unless you unsolder the encryption firmware and extract some kind of one-way hash. Assuming the hard drive is a black box (you can hook wires to it but you can't look inside), the only thing you can do is respond to its challenges. Distributed computing won’t save you unless you unsolder the encryption firmware and extract some kind of one-way hash. Assuming the hard drive is a black box (you can hook wires to it but you can’t look inside), the only thing you can do is respond to its challenges.

]]> By: Anonymous http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/comment-page-1/#comment-52688 Anonymous Sun, 13 May 2007 19:29:16 +0000 http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/#comment-52688 if any of the above mentioned ideas don't work, then there's always distributed computing. if any of the above mentioned ideas don’t work, then there’s always distributed computing.

]]> By: Hahaaha! http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/comment-page-1/#comment-52682 Hahaaha! Sun, 13 May 2007 19:12:25 +0000 http://davisfreeberg.com/2007/05/10/tivo-awarded-patent-for-password-that-is-so-hard-to-guess-it-will-outlive-your-hard-drive/#comment-52682 I give it like, a week, until some 10 year-old norweigian kid hacks the point between the data and password. :) Foolish password patents. Tesla is scoffing in the afterlife. I give it like, a week, until some 10 year-old norweigian kid hacks the point between the data and password. :)

Foolish password patents. Tesla is scoffing in the afterlife.

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