This behavior, if repeatable, is quite possibly subject to antitrust actions against MS… “You can play videos from people we’ve made arrangements with, but our competitors we’re deleting”

In future, I strongly recommend you boycott any download services like Amazon Unbox and Netflix that are crippled with DRM. Personally, I have never, and will never buy any digital content that is crippled with DRM (DVD’s inneffective DRM doesn’t count).

I’m going to stick with BitTorrent, buying DVDs and buying from DRM-free sites (e.g. sanctuaryforall.com) until the MPAA wakes up and stops punishing thier customers.

Tell Netflix you don’t want their DRM: http://defectivebydesign.org/blog/1093

They have cut-out miniletters to include in their envelopes! http://www.defectivebydesign.org/sites/nodrm.civicactions.net/files/netflix-business-card_0.pdf

I have a standard monitor (a 19″ CRT) hooked up to my new Vista computer. Over the holidays, I bought a 32″ LCD TV to hang in the study/computer room as an HDTV/Wii display/DVD display/PS2 display. Since I’d hooked everything else up to it, I also ran an HDMI cable from the second port of the Radeon card to use it as a second monitor. I set it up properly - 720P resolution with digital signal - as a shared desktop (different resolutions of course) and I was able to run Media Center on it to watch DVDs, local video content, and analog resolution video from my older tuner card in the PC.

The only tricky thing I had to do was switch my primary monitor to the LCD TV in order to play most games on the TV, like Half-Life 2.

I was just spelling all of this out because it may be just that I was using it as a dual monitor, but it didn’t affect my Netflix streaming at all. I could just drag my IE window to the LCD display, maximize it, start my streaming movie, and then click fullscreen and I got great picture quality and no DRM warnings. I don’t have any Amazon Unbox content (or any other MS DRM content that I know of), so that may have something to do with it as well.

As a general rule, I hate DRM and will go out of my way to only purchase content that is DRM free. I have no qualms whatsoever about ripping my purchased DVDs to iPod video format instead of buying them again on iTunes and I wouldn’t purchased downloadable content from Amazon that is going to be tied to DRM licenses on my computer. I do, however, kinda like Netflix’s Watch it Now feature. Since it is streamed, I don’t have to worry about being able to watch it next week, or after a system upgrade, or after the service goes away (like Wal-Mart’s service that just went belly-up). I would be upset, as you were, if the ability to watch a streamed movie meant I could no longer watch stuff that I had legitimately purchased.

Although I don’t think you specified one way or the another, can I assume you are running Vista? The article you linked to about your monitor being the source of the problem was Vista specific, and it also mentioned the staying with XP would be preferable.
For context, I have a Samsung 50″ 720p DLP with a direct PC input, and am running a PC connected to it specifically dedicated to feeding audio/video using iTunes, Miro and Netflix Instant Viewing. I’ve had zero trouble such as you describe, but then, the PC is running XP, NOT Vista.

Sounds like one more vote (as if it were still necessary!) for avoiding Vista.

@Anon - Something does feel very anti-trust about this. I’m not allowed to use the service until I disable competitors files? Something seems fundamentally wrong about this type of arrangement.

@Lachlan - I hear you on boycotting the DRM and in all fairness, I knew that there would be DRM problems when I did buy my Amazon movies, but I also like to support innovation and being able to download a film off the net is a pretty cool feature. I could just keep my internet video consumption underground, but ideally I’d like to live in a world where I can buy a movie anytime I want straight off the net. While boycotting the DRM is a fair way to deal with this type of DRM, it doesn’t do a lot to encourage the studios to open up their business model and provide content that I don’t mind paying for.

@Adam - I completely agree, there is no reason why my Netflix files should have to talk with my Amazon files. If the studios want to be protected from hacking, then they should at least be required to allow their multiple forms of DRM to work together.

@Brent - Good idea about Hacking Netflix, I’ll shoot Mike an email if he doesn’t end up seeing it. I know that he hates DRM as much as I do.

http://www.hackingnetflix.com/2007/12/i-still-really.html

As far as Netflix getting involved though, I doubt that there is really a lot that they can do. The tech guy on the phone was very good at being sympathizing with me over the problem. I think that if it was up to them, they would be more than happy to do without the layer of DRM. Eventually, Netflix was able to help me better understand the issues, but I’m not very optimistic that Netflix can help me when its really the studios telling them to disable high def computers.

Hi Neal - Unfortunately I am using Vista. When I first started shopping around for a computer, it was the only program that was available at the retail level. After having success with Vista on a new laptop, I didn’t expect to have any problems when I upgraded my desktop. Unfortunately, I was wrong and wasn’t aware of this HD issue. Since I’m not going be getting rid of my computer, I now have the choice of living without Netflix or trying to take back my monitor and exchange it for an inferior product.

Hey Davis,

Just stop using Netfix..

/ Duh!
// Duh Again!!

Don’t buy products from people who consider you a thief for doing so - if they trust you so little they think they need to add DRM, you have no reason at all to trust them either.

I had a similar problem recently where I could not for the life of me get software that I had purchased to work, and the fastest/easiest “fix” ended up being to literally download pirated versions. It’s just amazing to me that purchasing products for consumers has slowly become more problematic than stealing! It’s just insane to punish consumers like this and I simply don’t understand the logic behind it.

@Dave - I think your statement is not correct. The closest to a lawsuit against BitTorrent users was last year when HBO sent letters to people seeding Rome, Sopranos, etc. You’re thinking of KaZaA w/ music, whereas we’re talking about BitTorrent and tv/movies.

I wouldn’t worry about it. The studios aren’t suing BitTorrent users and if they do start, we’ll all hear about it. For now they seem content to go after thepiratebay.org and leave the users alone.

Aye, this sounds precisely like the warnings I was hearing about Vista before it launched. If there’s an unregistered, unchipped, or unstable component anywhere in your machine that doesn’t play perfect with DRM, your machine will stop playing movies. Or possibly media of any kind. Prior to Vista, machines were designed to handle almost anything they could, up to and including very brief power outages. Now? The slightest fluctuation causes the OS (Vista) to have a hissy fit, despite the machine being fine.

Upgrade to XP to solve your problem.

I’m afraid “Scott”, above, is misinformed. Since 2004, the MPAA companies have filed thousands of lawsuits against Bit Torrent users who have allegedly used the protocol to infringe copyright (remember, most Bit Torrent applications simultaneously upload as they download, which is how they catch you). The MPAA has also been seizing user records from Bit Torrent indexing sites that it has sued.

For some early coverage of the MPAA lawsuits, see EFF’s page:

” my real problems were actually tied to the shiny new monitor that I’ve already grown fond of”

No, it isn’t. Your problems are the crappy (is there any other kind?) DRM being inflicted on you, and using Vista.

When you buy content from the entertainment establishment, part of your money goes to the RIAA and the MPAA. Here’s what you get in return:

1. Laws that extend copyright beyond all reasonable bounds (originally 14 years, now life of the creator 70 years) These are not required to promote creativity. They are here to protect Mickey Mouse, and the ‘estates’ of dead artists that continue to leach off the culture without providing anything in return.

2. Laws like the DMCA that allow publishers to subvert your fair use rights by slapping on a layer of flimsy DRM that can’t be circumnavigated without breaking the law EVEN FOR USE THAT IS ALLOWED BY LAW.

3. Penal codes that allow a $250,000 fine for sharing a single .mp3. You can commit vehicular manslaughter and get away with a lower fine. (I promise you, it wasn’t concerned citizens who insisted on that sort of draconian punishment.)

4. Trade agreements that require operators of CD plants in foreign nations to submit to government inspections (imagine that, after winning to Cold War, we’re now insisting that the Russians start policing their own presses on our behalf.)

The list goes on. The fact is, when you buy entertainment at full retail, you support some very unsavory practices. This is not meant to justify piracy (a pure boycott would be the more ethical choice.) Rather, it should serve as a reminder that you simply cannot buy entertainment in a fashion that does not entail encroachments on your basic liberties and dignity. There’s environmental fallout from every minute you consume (at full retail.)

The short story is that, in spite of the freedom granted by the first amendment, the entertainment companies are profoundly undemocratic in their regard for individual liberty. Their desire for control of the user experience is absolutely boundless, and they will sue the daylights out of anything that crosses their paths, even if its tangential to their business. Xerox got sued for creating the copy machine. Sony got sued for creating the Betamax. Napster got sued for popularizing P2P. ANYTHING that can be used to distribute culture in any form is instinctively regarded as a threat by the content industry, at least until it can be brought under control and turned into an exclusive revenue stream. And how for will they go to ‘protect’ these streams? Just ask the Girl Scouts, who got sues for failing to pay royalties on songs sung around the campfire.

Some people call this evil. A better description is primitive. Understanding how to operate in a free culture is as challenging as learning how to govern with the consent of the governed. This is not, traditionally, something that Kings were good at. Only when threatened by bloody revolution do they back off and concede ground. And, revolution by revolution, tyranny is slowly replaced by democracy. Well, currently content is King. And like most Kings, it has been abusing its position terribly.

Now, it is fighting to maintain its dominance, but the people aren’t backing down. And nor should they. Not until the King has renounced some of his more despotic practices, and has decided to serve the needs of free culture instead of invading every corner it can find and gouging people for admission at every turn.

DRM is not only on Vista. It is on XP too. It’s bound to the Windows Media player.

This story surprised the hell out of me! I assumed that the talk about DRM being grossly limiting was all FUD. I can’t believe a company such as Netflix has been so short-sighted as to restrict their movies in this way (there are various ways they can alternately restrict them, such as not allowing copying or transfer of the files themselves).

I will never bump into any such problems because all the HD and most of the SD content I watch (at full HD on my non-HDCP monitor) is illegally obtained. It’s long been a joke in the PC gaming community that pirate games are more easily accessible (and have better functionality, in many cases) than shop-bought originals. The only exceptions to this are internet multilpayer games, which generally will not work without a valid license.

I don’t condone piracy in all forms, but if I want to watch a film in HD I can only download it. My monitor, not supporting HDCP, will cause DRM issues if I try to go legitimate and purchase either a BluRay or HDDVD drive. The problem worsens for my Xbox. If I buy the HDDVD add-on, my movies will probably get downgraded because my Xbox hooks up to my monitor via component.

When DRM goes completely away, studios are going to get a shock because people like me (and there must be more than a few!) are actually going to start buying their films.

People, what are you complaining about?? USE VHS!!! THE BEST FORMAT EVER!!

I can’t say for sure, but I’d bet XP would have the same problem. Netflix requires WMP11 with a specific version:

“Windows Media Player version 11 (DRM version 5145) or later”

I have no love for Vista and still use XP also, but unfortunately XP is infected in this way as well.

Whilst I feel sorry for the author, I am wondering why anyone would agree to purchase something if they knew beforehand that the vendor could turn it off at any time?

You wouldn’t buy a car if the dealer kept a remote-controlled killswitch… so why do people do exactly that with DRM-protected movies or music?

Even if the music/movie industry had a track record of showing goodwill to their customers (I’ll leave that question open… you still have to rely on fairly brittle technical arrangements to be able to watch/listen to music/movies that you have paid for.

Stuart

KLM: you mean of course betamax

Your statement about not being able to use Netflix due to Apple “refusing to share” their FairPlay DRM system with Netflix is slightly inaccurate.
Netflix, like most of the DRM-wanting companies, decided to go with the Windows Media platform, which Microsoft hasn’t made fully workable on the Mac.

WM was seen as “better” than FairPlay, mostly because the movie studios could then charge variable prices for content, *revoke customer access to purchased content based on their hardware choices* (exactly what Vista is doing to you now), etc.

You said: When I ran COPP to identify the error on my machine, it gave me an ominous warning that “the exclusive semaphere is owned by another process.”

It probably said “semaphore”, and I know what that means. A semaphore is a way for programs to lock certain resources, such as an area of memory or a file, in cases where many programs might want to use the same resources. For example, two programs might share the same area of memory so that they can communicate with each other. When one wants to write to that area, it obtains a semaphore for it so that the two programs don’t try to write at the same time.

That’s a very general error message that any program could report.

The fact that this error happened shows that COPP is poorly designed and/or buggy.

Just out of curiosity, have you tried dropping your resolution down to say 1280×1024 (or something in that range)? Your monitor should scale it up to fill the screen, and *maybe* the DRM would let the movie play at a lower resolution.

I haven’t tried this, but it might work.

I know I sound like a dinosaur but it’s for reasons like this that I prefer buying discs. It’s easy, i can reuse the discs on a different computer and screen (or player), etc.

Are you telling me that this comes as a surprise to you?

Do what I have done, dual boot your machine. I installed Vista and then created a partition for XP and installed it. Now I decide what OS to use depending on the known shortcomings. Google for Vista dualboot and you will find plenty of detailed guides how to install XP on a PC that shipped with vista or where vista was installed from disc. In other words you can keep your PC the way it is, just use the vista built in ability to shrink the primary partition and create a second partition for XP.

I never buy drm-crap-video and contents.

I buy content, yeah. for example amazon’s mp3, drm free music on itunes store or others sources

but NO DRM ! no , it’s too much hassle, complications and even a Torrent software is easier to deal with !

DRM is an industrial cataclysm.

So, I’m waiting. I can wait a long time, me and my money. I will not die If I’m not watching the latest will smith’s movie or whatever.

Well, my Linux (ubuntu) can do what your vista can. It also can do twice more and always will be a few steps ahead. And never close to DRM.
Ah… Should I mention it is free?
I have never ever considered to have vista on my pc. This is the direct effect of all Hollywood and MS games. Well even I am obliged to pay more for hardware because of the MS and all the DRM things (which makes drivers more expensive hence all the hardware).
One thing I don’t quite understand: why you people keep using this crap?

“One thing I don’t quite understand: why you people keep using this crap?”

Because, occasionally we’d like to be able to use some Apps? When are those Linux guys going to get around to creating some Apps? I’ve been waiting for like 20 years.

Oh - wait. Its free? That explains it.

Never.

a.) I have completely switched to Linux as my day-to-day operating system. If you feel like Windows and M$ is screwing you, maybe you should do, too.

b.) It does not take a rocket scientist to un-DRM Netflix downloads. Next time DRM rips you off, maybe you should have given that consideration.

c.) Amazon Unbox downloads are about as close to un-DRM’d as it gets. It’s a one-click operation.

I will not be caught dead being locked into this issue.

For the record: yes, I am a paying Netflix customer and never pass on any of their material or otherwise use it beyond the scope that it was intended. Well, maybe I won’t let Netflix prescribe what size monitor I can watch my videos on.

Yes, I pay for all my Amazon Unbox downloads. But the first thing I do is to remove the DRM.

I have received your error message before myself. But in contrast to you, I was not robbed.

What is my point: Once the industry realizes that DRM just doesn’t work but instead impedes a valid customer base it will eventually follow suit in what many music companies have already realized, namely to sell cripple-free.

I have never purchased a DRM audio or video. I never intend to. I don’t watch movies and I try to buy all my music from independent labels that do not belong to the RIAA.

Unfortunately, like all WXP and Vista customers, I am subject to DRM when it comes to my operating system. This became apparent a few months ago when I upgraded my XP system disk and was told that my computer required re-activation which could not be done automatically and would require a telephone call to Microsoft.

Fortunately (for them) after I verbally assured them that I was replacing a failing disk they gave me the necessary activation codes over the telephone and I could continue to use my computer. Had they denied or delayed me, there would have been one more Linux user and I would have been looking to join a class action lawsuit.

We have only ourselves to blame if we keep giving these companies our money.

This is a HOLLYWOOD problem, not a Netflix problem. Netflix is being required to do this by movie companies. Hollywood is terrified that you will steal the high quality digital stream and duplicate perfect copies for the world to steal.

If you want to effect change, refuse to buy the products. Hollywood only responds to money. They would love to get rid of DVDs: creation, shipping and management of physical product cuts into their profits. Downloads cut cost to a minimum, keeping the profit high.

“Anonymous” in the last message managed to notice “Jonathan”’s flawed argument (via fallacy of false dilemma: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma). That is, his bogus suggestion that Microsoft could either comply with Hollywood’s draconian DRM powergrab, or simply not play “premium content” (another loaded industry term).

Instead, Microsoft could (and should) have been a good will ambassador for their hundreds of millions of Windows customers and rightly demanded that they retain control of what’s absolutely THEIR property - THEIR computers. NOT for someone else to sieze control of and delete files from.

Tony Lauck, your Windows XP “Product Activation” (or Product Deactivation in your case) revealed the subtle control Microsoft has siezed on your computer. You were able to reach their call center and revive your dead property after Microsoft “permitted” you to do so. What happens when they decide to discontinue that call center?

I’m still running Windows 2000, the last great Windows OS not infected with the requirement to sacrifice ownership of your property.

Josh,

Your argument would work if Microsoft was more powerful than the entertainment industry.

It is not. Sony, by itself, has 1.5 times the revenue of Microsoft. Sony is just one of many in the entertainment industry.

In comparison to the entertainment industry, Microsoft is a small fry.

I just got off a lengthy troubleshoot with netflix with this same exact problem. Turns out, if I hook my old VGA monitor in addition to my LCD, set vga display as primary, I can launch the video successfully, and then drag it onto my LCD where it plays just fine. Unfortunately, this is not a long term solution for me.

Davis,

I too had problems with streaming Netflix movies. In my case, the DRM would not allow the movie to play on my Windows XP MCE (2005) machine because I was only using the S-Video port on my video card to drive my Standard Def TV. For some reason, their DRM found this unacceptable. Netflix tech support was sympathetic, but told me I had to have a monitor connected to the PC for their movies to work. This is unacceptable, as this is our ‘Media Center’ machine and is in the middle of our living room. An additional monitor simply wouldn’t cut it. So, after doing a little research, I built a dummy VGA terminator (see http://tvtool.info/english/dummy_e.htm for instructions on making your own) to trick my video card into thinking I had an analog monitor connected.

After plugging this into one of my monitor outputs, I simply set up the video drivers as a cloned dual-display (i.e. the same thing is shown on both displays). If you only have DVI outputs, you might have to use a DVI->VGA converter plug.

Now I’m happily streaming video to my TV.

Perhaps this solution would work in your case as well.

Good luck!

~ Dan

I was recently bitten by the WMP11 requirement. It revoked Watch Instantly playback on a 7600GS’s component dongle - Receiver - HD CRT display connection. I’m writing an e-mail to reed.hastings(at)netflix/dot/com for whatever good that’ll do. It’s a shame too, because Watch Instantly done well should make Netflix much more profitable.

Solved it!
Go into Display Properties ->Settings->Advanced->Monitor->Properties
Update the driver to “Plug and Play Monitor”. I was previously using Philips LCDTV Driver

That’s it…. took me 10 hours to figure that little gem out.

-Matt

ARGH! VISTA! I did my trick on XP…. Sorry. I loath Vista. I hope you can manage it. It shouldn’t be this hard to play stuff you pay for!
-Matt

Hi, I thought DVI (or HDMI) is a one way street that only sends video signals
to the monitor and gets nothing back, which implies that the PC can not
possibly know if the monitor is HDCP compliant or not.

I suspect that the problem is with the DVI Video card itself, as not all
DVI cards support HDCP.

Am I wrong ?

I spent too many hours troubleshooting this same issue. It is not just a vista issue. I am using XP on both computers.

It seems to come up for me anytime I try to start a netflix stream using S-video. If I am using my laptop it’s not a big deal, just set it up to extend the desktop to the tv and start the video on the lcd, then drag it over to the tv side. I prefer to use my pc desktop dedicated for the home theater, but it only uses S-video out to the tv. I even tried cloning a monitor and S-video, but it did not work either. Anytime it detects that I am trying to view the signal on an S-video connection, it pops up that stupid drm error.

I don’t understand why they are so concerned about me trying to copy something I can stream anytime I want. I have no use to “save” or “copy” it. Just log in and watch whatever I want. If I really wanted a copy I probably order the DVD and figure out how to copy that!… They ruined a great service with this crap.

I have a Samsung 226BW as well David. The strange thing is that I can play back Netflix videos on my Samsung, but when I connect my HDTV via component cables, I then run into the same problems you describe above. If I start the movie in a window on my Samsung and drag it over to the HDTV, the movie continues playing (I can hear audio) but the video goes black.

OK folks I also received DRM error while trying to watch movie on my XP Pro with IE 7 installed. I have one desktop and 3 laptops all with XP. I can watch movies on all but one and I get DRM error. I followed instructions on Netflix help site and reset DRM successfully several times, rebooted machine but that did not help. Came to this blog and several other blogs and tried deleting Netflix, delete ting Windows Media than rebooted machine, than reinstalled Netflix and WM Version 11 than rebooted machine again but no good and same problem again. Did not want to but called Netflix and the guy told me same things I had already tried than he gave up. I read other blogs and found that nothing helped me. After two day of hair pulling called Netflix again and this guy like last guy took over my machine and did same things like last guy. He could not help either. Now it started bothering me like an itch that you have to itche. I had admin rights on my laptop than why this issue. I created another profile with admin rights and after reboot I logged in under new profile and guess what I CAN WATCH MOVIES WITH NO ISSUES now on this laptop as well. I was sooooo happy that I had to come here and brag lol

I have been looking at DRM/HDCP issues on my Vista implementation too. I have found that the major roadblock for Netflix live is in the video card implementation. Like many high def lovers I greatly prefer component video over the poor quality HDMI cables. Well, this was a problem with my 8800GTS nVidia card. Component does not support HDCP so no Netflix streaming. Fortunately the card supports cloned dual monitors and my mobo supports two digital audio channels (optical and coax). So I have now set up two separate devices on my Denon 4306, one running component and coax digital audio (VCR-1), and one HDMI (though a DVI to HDMI connector) and the optical digital audio (VCR-2). For my BluRay/high def stuff I switch the Denon to VCR-1 and for the Netflix/DRM challenged stuff I switch to VCR-2. It works. I JUST SHOULD NOT HAVE TO DO THIS!!! (Sorry for the rant.)

So for many of you, take a look at your video card and how it implements HDCP. Could make a difference.

For the record, I have XP SP3 outputting 720p into an HDTV and I have the exact same error code. I don’t believe going back to XP will help. I for one plan on stepping down to the 1 DVD plan and letting Netflix know why they are receiving significantly less money.

Quote from Techie_dude:
“Netflix isn’t making you pay for these movies. They are FREE with your regular subscription.”

uh…How does that work?

So, it is “free” as long as you pay (subscribe)?
Doesn’t sound “free” to me.

I won’t use it. I don’t have any movies on my PC but I am not going to let the RIAA/MS scan all my files for “free” unless they pay and subscribe.

swanlake, if the video your trying to watch is .avi maybe you should download divx.

You are seeing this while using an account with adequate privileges to run the background DRM software, not the Guest account, correct? This can happen in a low-privilege account, regardless of M$/RIAA stupidity.